U.S
N.Z
U.K
A conversation shaped by the push and pull of behavioural science and HOP
Listen to the episode of Leading Safely with Georgina Poole.
In this episode of Leading Safely, Georgina Poole speaks with Dr Nic Weatherly, a behavioural scientist, co-author of the Deliberate Coaching model and, in his own words, “the behaviour guy.”
The conversation sits in the productive tension between behavioural science and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP). Rather than pretending the difference is a wall, Georgina and Dr Nic use it as a lens to dig at practical leadership questions: how do we actually change habits that stick, what role do systems play, and how do leaders learn to ask more than tell?
1. Start by seeking to understand
A through-line of the conversation is humility; resisting jumping to judgement or quick fixes. Dr Nic’s first step with any leader or team is to get curious and diagnose, not to prescribe. He says it plainly:
“My first step is always to seek to understand.”
That approach reframes stubborn or “difficult” people as products of their history and their system rather than as willful blockers:
“They’re a product of their environment. They’re a product of their system.”
When a leader resists change, a key takeaway is to uncover what’s worked for them before and what limitations their environment imposes, then design interventions with that context in mind.
2.Behaviour is functional: people do what works for them
Dr Nic repeatedly returns to a simple, clarifying idea that cuts through rhetoric:
“People ultimately do what they do because it works.”
That removes moralising language and replaces it with a functional question: what does this behaviour provide for the person right now? If the “safe” choice doesn’t obviously serve the worker in their context, it’s naïve to expect consistent, lasting change.
The practical takeaway is to look at what people get out of their current behaviours, then tweak the environment or consequences so the safer choice gives them the same wins.
3. Use antecedents and positive consequences intentionally
Dr Nic explains behavioural science in plain terms:
Antecedents set the behaviour in motion; consequences determine whether it continues.
He deliberately reframes “consequences” to strip away punitive connotations.
“There are things that come before the behaviour that we call… antecedents. … And then whether the behaviour continues or not is determined based on essentially, does it work for the person.”
He wants organisations to design both the supports that start the behaviour (clear expectations, job aids, modelling) and the follow-up that shows it worked (feedback loops, meaningful recognition, fixes that make the safe choice easier).
A simple way forward is to think in two steps. First, set people up for success, and second, make the outcome rewarding enough that they’ll want to do it again.
4. Leadership is about making success repeatable
Dr Nic defines effective leadership in terms of reproducibility, not just short-term results, but whether leaders can explain how they achieved them:
“If somebody has a really bad Tuesday and a really good Wednesday, just go up to them and say, what was the difference? And if they can’t tell you the difference, then we can’t expect them to replicate that.”
Leaders who can point to the small set of behaviours that matter help teams stop operating “on autopilot” and start practising what actually works.
5. The divide between HOP and behavioural approaches is solvable with conversation
A really constructive part of the conversation between Dr Nic and Georgina is the insistence that the rift between schools of thought isn’t irreconcilable but it is real and often driven by poor communication, ego and misunderstanding:
“Clearly neither side knows anything about the other side.” Dr Nic went on to say…
“So I’m looking at this like this is just a bomb waiting to go off. This is not gonna work. How about we have some conversations?”
Dr Nic urges more cross-discipline curiosity. He points out that behaviour analysis has a long history of studying systems and non-blaming approaches – the problem has been dissemination and misapplication.
Encourage spaces where methodologists, HOP practitioners, and coaches can challenge each other’s assumptions openly, keeping the focus on learning rather than labels.
6. Coaching is practical and evidence-based and it must show value
Dr Nic describes his work as helping organisations make their values stick and he treats coaching like a measurable intervention, not soft therapy:
“Our job is just to make it stick… when it comes down to making the behaviour habits and moving culture like one behaviour at a time, that’s where we come in.”
He also embraces the accountability of applied work; he’s there to deliver demonstrable safety impact.
Dr Nic frames coaching as a diagnostic + improvement cycle with observable outcomes. Leaders are more likely to engage when they can see tangible improvements.
7. If you could invent one thing: connect people where they are
When Georgina asked what he would build with unlimited resources, Dr Nic chose connection rather than a flashy gadget:
“I would build some sort of non-WiFi needed tool… that allows people to communicate and interact in a way that is fast and efficient. So that way, if they’re a lone worker… how can we support these people both with antecedents and consequences?”
That’s an elegantly humble answer.
The missing link is timely human connection especially in remote or distributed work. Investments that improve the speed and quality of leader-to-worker interactions will amplify almost every behaviour change effort.
8. Ask more, tell less
Dr Nic gave some powerful advice:
“Do more asking than telling. Talk less.”
That’s both a coaching prompt and an organisational injunction. Listening is what brings the real barriers to the surface and makes better design possible.
Understanding why people do what they do
Georgina’s conversation with Dr Nic Weatherly is about staying curious and using different perspectives to help people be safer, happier, and more effective at work. As Dr Nic puts it, the goal isn’t to win an argument, it’s to make a real difference.
“I’m there to get results. That’s why I’m there.”
If you want a conversation that bridges theory and practice, humility and rigour, this episode is a great place to start.
Catch up on Georgina Poole’s fresh take on safety in our blogs People Aren’t the Problem, They’re the Solution and Beyond the Blame Game, where she flips the script on blame and shows how focusing on systems and human insight drives real change.
Go further and watch our recent webinar Are You Measuring the Metrics That Matter?, where Georgina challenges the numbers leaders rely on and reveal how measuring what really matters can transform safety outcomes.
Share:
